Juan Manuel Moreno Bonilla
President of the Junta de Andalucía
Asela Pintado / Aquí Europa
Its territorial dimensions of 87,000 square kilometers are comparable to those of an average European Union state. Demographically, it also enjoys an important relative weight, since with more than 8 million inhabitants it has a larger population than more than a dozen Member States. For all these reasons, Andalusia is undoubtedly the region that has received the most benefits from the European Union.
If we look at the economic aid granted from Brussels, the Andalusian economy is the third largest economy in Spain in terms of the size of its gross domestic product in terms of the income it produces and the population it employs. The service sector is the most important sector, with 62% of the gross value added, with the weight of tourism being particularly important, as Andalusia receives more than 30 million visitors a year.
It is now facing the challenge of climate change, being one of the regions most affected by it, and demands that Europe takes this situation into account. But to learn more about the reality of this European region, its ideas for the future and the most pressing challenges facing the community, also from a European perspective, today we are joined by its president, Juan Manuel Moreno Bonilla.
Thank you, President, for being with us in the program Europe of the Regions of Canal Europa, at the headquarters of the Committee of the Regions in Brussels. We know that you come frequently and that lately you are very active in defending policies that are very important, and not only for Andalusia, such as the defense of the uniqueness of all these regions that are very affected by climate change. How do you intend to make this defense?
Well, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to this space which is very important for us, for the Andalusians and for me as their representative. Secondly, it is true that climate change is advancing much faster than even scientists planned in their first panels, back in the 90s in the United Nations.
And there are regions that have a level of vulnerability to these climate changes, especially the southern regions, that we have to take very much into account what this means. We are already seeing how regions like Andalusia will not be able to compete in terms of social cohesion with the rest of Europe for one reason: because we are going to have an element that is fundamental for our economic and social development, such as water.
Andalusia has practically 30% less precipitation since 1980, as a consequence of climate change that has worsened in the last four years. And to give you a fact, right now in the eight Andalusian provinces we are at an average of 14% of the water reserve. What does that mean? That if it does not rain during this year we will have to limit water.
Agriculture is already being limited and industry is being limited, but limiting even human consumption would mean that cities as important as Malaga and Seville would have water cuts. What I mean by all this is that we cannot compete on equal terms with the rest of the citizens of Europe if we do not have the necessary infrastructures to provide us with this water.
And what we have asked, what we are requesting from the European Union, is that those funds that exist, which are precisely cohesion funds and structural funds, have an exclusively final objective to carry out water works, river interconnections, reservoirs, desalination plants, water purification for its integral cycle and to be able to reuse the water that we consume in the cities.
And in this objective we are working with the European authorities to try to convince them, not only Andalusia but other regions in southern Europe that have the same problem as us, so that the Commission, the Parliament itself, so that the European institutional authorities have us present in the investment policies exclusively in water and in the preservation of our natural spaces and our way of life, which in this case Andalusia is the first agricultural power in Spain and without water.
It is like if you take away Germany’s gas, we stop working.
Yes, I wanted you to explain to us a little more in detail what you are telling us. He assumes that if these investments are not made in Andalusia, both agriculture and industry would suffer greatly. This would automatically lead to an even greater imbalance between many of the regions.
We would be poorer, less income and, therefore, the gap between the richer and poorer regions would be greater with a cause of more, which is natural, that we cannot remedy, so to speak.
Exactly, because the issue we are talking about here is climate change, which is not the power of any government to modify. Many times we think about what the Board does or what the regions do in this case to be able to alleviate this.
Of course. Unfortunately, climate change is a global phenomenon that we must fight from all areas. In Andalusia we fight it and we make a strong investment within our responsibility, precisely to maintain our forest mass, to try to reach neutral emissions. But at the same time we have to carry out works that allow us the capacity to maintain those water resources so that economic activity and natural activity can continue to function.
And there, about the European Fund, the only thing we are saying, perhaps within a scale of priorities, is that now the European authorities must decide that the first priority in these regions is water. For example, right now we are not allowed to reprogram funds and there are funds that are going to be returned that could be used for this kind of objective, which would be fantastic to achieve sustainability in economic, social and also environmental terms.
You were in Egypt at COP 27 and there, among many of the issues they discussed, they were looking at how Israel was working. Do you think you could do this type of thing if we could all get the European Union to allow the transfer of funds?
Yes, it could be done. It is true that Israel has made a very important effort. Above all, they have had a technological advantage over other countries. It is a country that has a water deficit and what it has done, betting and relying on technology, is a revolution. And that revolution consists of being very innovative in it. It has practically zero water leaks because they measure it via satellite and in a technological way in all the water pipes, something that does not happen in Andalusia, for example, where we foresee, because we do not even know it, that in rural areas there are losses of 41-50% in the network itself. We have to try to reverse this among all of us.
But not only that, but in desalination techniques, where they have less impact than in other technologies in terms of integral water purification, where it is even consumed by humans, not only for industry or agriculture, they are also making a technique of modifications, also of genetics for agriculture, so that they can provide these fruits but with the least definitive water consumption.
They have made great progress. I met with the first water authority in Israel so that he could give us some advice to see what line they were working on and that they could guide us. And the truth is that it has been a meeting that we have had over the last year and it has helped us to see angles that we had not contemplated.
It is true that all these investments are very expensive. A water treatment plant or a desalination plant, for example. These are works that we are carrying out in Andalusia. Works that can exceed 150 million euros, sometimes even 300 million euros, works that take four or five years and therefore we would need, for the whole network of pipelines in Andalusia, which is as big as Portugal and bigger than 15 countries of the European Union, capable people and economic resources to be able to provide us with the technology that would make us even more efficient in the field of water consumption and management.
We really want to, we have innovation, we lack the funds. But there is one thing that caught my attention. When you were in Egypt, you were almost obliged to justify that the regions should be in international spaces and that they should have their voice there. And you said a sentence, I am going to read it because it is in quotation marks: “Wherever the interests of Andalusia are debated, Andalusia has to be there”. Why do we still not understand that the regions are extremely important at a regional level? But why is it so difficult for them to understand that they are the finalists, that they are the ones who have to apply the policies and that they are the ones who really know the needs? What are we failing to achieve this governance?
Well, we are failing in joint governance, in that the protagonism of the States is so broad that it often prevents us from seeing the fundamental work that cities and regions have to do. It is impossible to meet the objectives of climate neutrality in positive terms without the effective participation of cities and regions. There are many reasons for this. First, because we are prescribers, we are the ones who can convince, we can educate, we can inform citizens because the State is very far from the citizen. We are even closer, and we can talk to them and convey their concerns.
Secondly, we are competent in each country in a different way, but in Andalusia we have full competence in environmental matters. In water matters less, because it is shared with the State and with the Hydrographic Confederation of the Guadalquivir. But we have competences in agriculture, in health, we have many objectives that can only be achieved through the effective application of our policies.
And what we are asking, and it seems reasonable and it is a demand that we sometimes pass on to the Commission and to the Council itself, is to work on it also in the COP. That the participation of the regions and cities should not be looked upon with surprise. What is more, from here I call for much greater participation of the regions and cities, so that we are also present in international forums, we have our space and at the same time we too, with the rest of the regional and local authorities, attend the COP.
At the beginning I started, I went to the COP, and I was practically the only one from my country who went. And now I say to my colleagues, what are you doing? Listen, the biggest problem you have right now, in terms of present and future, is everything that climate change is going to generate, in economic terms, in social terms, in institutional terms, and also in political terms.
You have to be there where the debate is taking place and that is why I always have a premise: wherever the interests of Andalusia are at stake, Andalusia has to be present there. No matter what the forum is, and I knock on all the doors and I am convinced that we can only achieve our objectives if we are a transmission belt, if we go from below, from above and from above to below.
And this objective, of course, we are going to fight for it, convinced that we are gaining space every day, and besides, the region and the city must be given two fundamental things: technical support and financing. Often we have more technical support because we have many competences, but there are regions that have less. And financing is necessary for us to be able to implement the policies agreed by the States.
These policies have to go down to the citizen and that can only be done by the city and the regions.
You have just met with your colleagues from the Popular Group. Can you tell us what agreement you have reached? What do you want to do?
We basically talked about the opinion on climate change and health. We have to convey to the citizen something very important, that we are not aware that climate change is not only leading to a situation, as is happening in Andalusia, which has caused us to lose two points of GDP due to drought, and may cause us to lose ten points of GDP, 150,000 jobs in agriculture.
In industrial matters, water is life, but it is also economy. But not only. We have always talked about the economic effects, but it has a climatic effect, millions of people die prematurely every year as a result of air pollution or water pollution or climatic changes that are occurring.
Every heat stroke that occurs, people die prematurely who could live 80 or 90 years. This has to be passed on to the citizens. Your life is at stake. Climate change is also your life, your quality of life and the viability that you also have as a human being and, therefore, we must continue in this line.
Personally, I have also conveyed the concern that Spain is experiencing at the moment, because there are many questions from my colleagues about what is happening in Spain. They see images of massive demonstrations, they see that something big is happening in Spain, and I have told them that after the defeat of the Socialist Party, Mr. Sánchez has made a pact with a fugitive from justice, Mr. Puigdemont, and has led us to the breakdown of the separation of powers.
From our point of view and from the point of view of the entire Judiciary, which has spoken out against it, this is very worrying because any Western democracy, any quality democracy, needs counterpowers and the European Union has always been a bulwark and a safeguard that the Judiciary, the Legislative Power and the Executive Power have always been separated.
In this case, the Judiciary has lost that capacity of separation. Equality among Spaniards is put in question and they go towards 1,500 people who have been judged and condemned by the rule of law. And my colleagues should be aware of all these kinds of things, so that they become aware that we have a problem in Spain.
Because in the end what happens in Andalusia happens in Spain. What affects Spain affects Europe. That is correct. In the end we are all Europeans and any European decision has an impact on Spain and, of course, on Andalusia and vice versa. Well, thank you very much, President. Best of luck and we are all working for the same thing, for a better and bigger Europe that welcomes us all and that, above all, makes us not lose opportunities such as the ones we hope you can achieve so that Andalusia does not lose any of them. Thank you very much.
Thanks to you. And thanks to this space that allows us to transfer the goodness that Europe has, the most important space of freedom in the world that we must preserve and pamper.
