Sophia McIntyre
Australian ambassador
Javier Socastro
“Australians are used to distance” Sophia McIntyre claimed in a Zoom interview for The Diplomat in Spain YouTube channel. Ambassador McIntyre, who arrived in Madrid last September, is not particularly concerned about distance, “Although, I have to say that in this era of COVID distance is longer knowing that it is more difficult to return to Australia. “.
Australia and Spain keep very fluent relations in many aspects for 52 two years now. Would you say that defence and military contracts are the most important fields which connect both countries?
Defence contracts and defence material cooperation has been a significant part of the relationship. Spanish companies including Navantia and others have had significant contracts from the Australian defence forces. But I would say their relationship has matured an expanded and has had additional depth these days. It’s not to say that the defence relationship is any smaller, but other parts of their relationship has really flourished and are growing in a very encouraging way.
We’ve seen excellent development of the commercial links between Australia and Spain, particularly in the last 10 years. You’ve seen a lot of Spanish companies establish themselves in Australia and are doing very well, particularly in the sectors like infrastructure and energy. And also we have a really good dynamic cooperation, particularly in the multilateral sphere. We approach multilateral issues in a very likeminded way. We share the same values. We promote Human Rights. We care about gender equality and there’s a flourishing sense of solidarity on some of these issues that come through in the way we work together in organisations like the United Nations.
Which are major projects for you as Ambassador right now? In particular those you just mentioned, which go beyond military and defence programmes.
Well, so the distinction with defence programmes is that they are government contracts. But we certainly involve ourselves in trying to promote interest in both directions and the opportunities available. So, we found organisations like the Council Foundation Spain Australia which has a number of corporations that sit on the board to look at opportunities and promote opportunities in Australia and in Spain. I also have regular contacts with Australian companies and talk to them about what I see the situation here, as in whether there might be opportunities. For example, we look at recovery funds and the recovery plans that Spain have for the next few years.
Do you believe that the fact that Navantia has got a branch office in Australia eases military cooperation? or also commercial as you mentioned? What is the impact of such an important branch office?
Well it’s a sign of a strong relationship that we’ve built over recent years. Navantia built most recently 3 destroying ships for Australia. At the moment, it is in the process of completing contracts to build supply ships. One sailed into Sydney harbour to be handed to the Australian navy just in January. And the second one is due later this year.
I understand that Navantia’s office in Australia is one of its largest offices and it’s really a symbol of the ongoing commitment to that relationship. Navantia will maintain and update the ships that there have supplied to Australia and continue to work with our defence forces. The fact that Navantia has office has enabled us to explore more opportunities, especially over the pandemic moment, that travel is so difficult, it’s made some things easier to have Navatia so close.
It’s not only ships that Navantia has traded with in Australia but also aircrafts, such as the A330 MRTT. Is there anything that Australia sees in Spanish military crafts, so we earned your trust?
I think we get good cooperation and good result from our work with Spanish companies. We certainly have defence contracts around the world, but Spain’s well represented among us. what we’ve seen in Spanish companies it’s a really good willingness to work with us in developing technology to meet our requirements and to also work with Australian industry.
As ambassador, what fields, do you think, should be further developed between both states?
I think there is huge potential in the bilateral relationship. And in some respects, I think Spain and Australia are in the early stages of discovering each other, commercially and also in terms of people-to-people links. Spain is a very famous tourist destination, obviously, and Australians love to visit Spain in that respect. But I think we can encourage more young Australians to come to Spain and study and spend longer periods here. Australians are great travellers. They are quite comfortable with upping their roots and spending some time overseas after university or trying to work somewhere else. And I think there’s scope for more exchanges like that. We certainly have growing figure in Spanish students and adults to come for studying and working. And unfortunately, the pandemic has affected that trend, but I hope that exchange really continues soon, when the pandemic is over.
Maybe one of the most successful programmes is the “work and holidays” for young Spanish. Today, that programme has been working and growing for 5 years. Do you believe it still meets its foundational goals?
Yes, absolutely we had a great response to the “Work and Holiday” programme and particularly from young Spanish people willing to spend some time in Australia. It’s a really great programme. It gives young Spaniards the opportunity to travel to Australia to be able to take casual work and earn a bit of income to support their travels while they’re there. And at the same time, the work that backpackers and young travellers do is really beneficial to the Australian economy. So from my point of view, it’s been a great success we’ve had. And I think, it’s been two years ago we increased the number of visas.
Jumping into trade and commercial agreements, is there any news about Australia signing a free trade agreement with the EU?
Yes. So, we have been negotiating the trade agreement with the European Union for several years now. It remained a very high priority for us, and our negotiators have taken planes a few times and european negotiators as well. Now, instead they’ve been spending long nights in zoom calls over the last 12 months.
The negotiations have been continuing. We’ve completed 8 negotiating rounds so far. We’re hopeful that we’ll be in a position to complete an agreement this year. It’s really important not just for the trade and economic opportunities that it gives us, particularly in these difficult economic times, but also I think it’s got an extra significance as a symbol of free trade and continuing open exchanges post pandemic as we all face these challenging economic outlook.
At the moment, do you the fact that there is not an actual agreement is an obstacle for investment to both sides?
I think that the sign of a free trade agreement has things it can offer to improve the investment environment, but really we have very good investment conditions. That’s evidenced by the fact that we’re very strong investors in each other. Australia’s a significant investor in the EU and the EU is Australia biggest investor. But there are aspects that can be made even smoother under a free trade agreement, with the biggest difference would be seen as in market access. And that’s also where the negotiations get down to the tricky bits as we near the end. But we’re confident that we can secure a quick deal for Australian exporters and one that would benefit European exporters as well.
Especially these past days, that the border between the EU and the UK is getting some trouble, is there anything that Australia should fear from getting closer to the European Union?
Obviously negotiating an entry deal is easier than negotiating an exit deal. Australia is a very open country. We have a lot commitment to free trade and we have a significant network of free trade agreements. We’re happy with the direction and negotiations with the EU.
As I said, I think we can we can reach a deal that has got good outcomes for everyone but I think what we really need to guard against is that in these uncertainty that we don’t retreat into protectionism, so really looking at the benefits that free trade have has brought the world and brought to consumers, how easy it’s made some aspects of our lives, and realizing that those are benefits. And if you take them away, you’re creating new areas of friction and in a way is probably a step backwards. We don’t see any reason to worry. In particular, we’ve got really strong support from Spain which also has had a great record for commitment to free trade.
Something that Australia and Spain have in common is that they both rely on a high percentage of service as part of their economy. In the case on Australia, it is up to 70% of its GDP. How’s the pandemic affecting Australia in this sense?
Yeah, exactly. Tourism services, hospitality services, have been severely affected by the pandemic and it’s a very difficult situation as we just don’t know when things will return to where they were before.
In Australia, services have many faces. So, we have tourism, we have hospitality we have a huge education services sector which has been hit very hard. We have a lot of international students, particularly from our region in the Pacific who come to study in Australia and while some have managed to continue those studies, others not. Some sectors are doing tough overall.
Nevertheless, there are signs of recovery. I am hoping that we will move into a recovery phase quite strongly this year. The economy is bouncing back, the domestic tourism sector is up and running. That brings a certain confidence and optimism. I think it is really important to get the economy moving and keep providers open.
Given those similarities between our two countries, is there anything that Australia and Spain could learn from each other?
Yeah, I’m sure. There are areas where we can share experiences and learn. Part of it, of course is understanding how this disease works and how it is managed. But part of it also understanding what economic measures work to support businesses getting back up.
We are watching what Spain is doing very closely and reporting back to Canberra. Without coordination of course, we had quite similar measures in place. Both of our countries have had measures which provide support, we call it “job keeper” in Australia, so that businesses get support to keep employees on. Even when their income has dropped, they were given support with mortgages so that they can have enough money to get through all this. Indeed, there’s a broad range of measures that are parallel to the ones that Spain has put in place.
The Australian government is trying to reach a very impressive global goal as it is abolishing death penalty worldwide. Do you believe that purpose is possible in such a complicated world that we live in?
Yeah, Australia has a really long-standing commitment to the abolition of the death penalty. We don’t believe the death penalty’s ever appropriate for any crime, in any place and any person.
Do I believe that we are close to reach that goal? Well, no. Sadly I don’t I think so. In many many areas you see some regression there, but I don’t think that’s a reason to stop advocating to abolish the death penalty. There are thousands of people on death row globally and also the within the region of the Pacific there are a number of countries that have the death penalty in place. However, we do see signs of progress. Some countries are considering taking this part off the books and have moved slightly in their positioning internationally. So, we try and work constructively where we see those openings.
Besides the obvious obstacles that the pandemic has entailed for last year, since 2018 there has been no bilateral trips between both countries. Do you know if our two governments still keep active contact, at least via video conferences?
Yes, absolutely. And the fact that there hasn’t been any visits is because we did have an agenda planned for Australia. But absolutely there are regular contacts at ministerial and leader level and we really seek the opportunity to work closer with Spain. As I said, we share so many approaches and it is important to align action.
