Tal Itzhakov
Spokeswoman of the Embassy of Israel in Spain
Manuel Paillole
Hamas resumed this Saturday the release of Israeli hostages. At least for the time being, a return to hostilities in Gaza has been avoided and the negotiation process agreed by both parties is being maintained. However, the spokesperson of the Israeli Embassy in Spain, Tal Itzhakov, considers that Hamas cannot be part of the ‘day after’ in the Middle East.
The release of the three hostages by Hamas has put the cease-fire process back on track. Should we fear a new rupture at any time?
It is that we are negotiating with the worst terrorists in this world. We are a democratic state versus a cruel terrorist organization. We are paying very high prices by releasing Palestinian prisoners who, in many cases, were tried and sentenced in Israel to life sentences. One of them murdered 44 Israeli civilians with his own hands. There is no symmetry between these terrorists and a 9-month-old baby kidnapped from its own crib.
We have also seen, in the first hostage releases, how Hamas has tried to terrorize and humiliate them physically and psychologically until the last second. But we still have hostages held there and we are committed to bringing them home. That is why we assume the very high price we have to pay to get them released.
Precisely such exchanges, let’s say disproportionate, have occurred regularly in the past, as with the soldier Gilad Schalit, who was exchanged for almost a thousand Palestinian prisoners. Is there any difference now?
I remember that case. Precisely one of the terrorists released then planned the October 7 attack. That’s why I say we are paying very high prices. But what it shows is that in Israel we place a high value on life. And Hamas gives none. They hold their population hostage, they use them as human shields, they attack their own citizens, they steal their supplies….
The fact is that it is the Palestinian civilians who suffer.
Israel has at all times acted in accordance with international law. We have made it clear that our response is against Hamas, which bears responsibility for committing crimes against humanity, not against the Gazans. Hamas perpetrated on October 7 a terrible massacre in which more than 1,200 Israelis were killed, many of them burned alive, raped…, among them nationals of many countries, including Spaniards. Since then, attacks by Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and the Houthis, directed exclusively against civilian targets, have caused enormous suffering to Israelis, and hundreds of thousands of displaced persons.
Is mass deportation of Gazans legal, and possible, as Donald Trump wants?
First I want to show Israel’s appreciation to both administrations, also the Biden administration, for their support. This is a new idea that has not yet taken shape. We don’t know the details. In my view, it offers a new way of dealing with the conflict. Let’s see how it progresses. Obviously it would be citizens who want to leave of their own free will. Other solutions have been tried in recent decades. And perhaps there is room for other ideas. What is clear is that in any case, Hamas cannot be part of the day after.
Do you really believe that Hamas will disappear after this war?
This is a terrorist organization that clearly threatens the state of Israel, leaving aside that in its founding charter it calls for the destruction of Israel. And it has already said that it will repeat the October 7 massacre. It is clear that Israel cannot afford such a threat on its border.
The king of Jordan and the Egyptian president have already rejected Trump’s plan for the displacement of Palestinians. What if Egypt and Jordan do not cooperate?
It is not for me to opine on what the Arabs will do. But I insist on the above. Maybe it is good to try new ideas.
What about the European Union, can it play a role?
Any actor that has a proposal that can be relevant, their ideas are welcome. President Trump himself has said so.
How do they see in Israel that a majority of the Spanish population openly supports Palestine?
The Israelis are aware that a sector of Spanish society holds pro-Palestinian positions. The real problem arises when the defense of the Palestinian cause turns into anti-Israeli acts and statements, denying Israel’s right to exist or calling for its destruction (“Free Palestine from the river to the sea”). We have seen how the levels of anti-Semitism are rising, and not only in Spain but globally. It is very alarming. We have to condemn anti-Semitism. And also a new anti-Semitism, which is against the right of the State of Israel to exist.
On the bilateral level, will we soon have an Israeli ambassador in Spain?
Well, our relations are very important. But there is no news yet. At the moment we don’t have an ambassador. I hope that soon there will be circumstances for that.
The fact is that Spain’s recognition of the Palestinian state is no longer reversible. How do you settle this disagreement?
That recognition did not change anything on the ground nor did it improve the situation of the abductees. It was a trophy for a terrorist organization that had committed a horrible massacre and received a political prize. But we continue the dialogue. The channels with Spain are still open.
It was not really a recognition of Hamas but of the Palestinian National Authority.
In reality, the PNA does not currently have the capacity to manage its future, among other reasons because of its internal divisions. Moreover, the PNA has never condemned the October massacre. Over the years we have tried to reach many peace agreements and we have made great efforts. but dialogue has to flow from both sides. Today I don’t think the PNA can offer anything.
Neither can UNRWA?
From our point of view UNRWA is not a solution but a problem. We have seen that UNRWA members have actively participated in the October massacres. Very many are members of terrorist organizations. And the same strategy that Hamas uses to infiltrate its terrorist infrastructure into the civilian population, we have seen with UNRWA. Other agencies, such as UNOPS or WFP, and NGOs are delivering humanitarian aid to the population. In fact, as of the end of 2024, UNRWA’s aid represents less than 1% of what is coming into Gaza.
But individuals are one thing and UNRWA, which is a UN agency, is another.
It’s just that inside its facilities are Hamas strongholds. Some of the abducted women were detained in UNRWA facilities. So we are looking at other international organizations that can replace UNRWA. And I’m not talking about textbooks in UNRWA schools, because a lot of what we’ve talked about delegitimizing Israel can be read in UNRWA books for schoolchildren.
What is the status of the Abraham agreements?
Before October 7, we saw unprecedented cooperation. In economy, trade, technology, direct flights, culture, etc. No country that signed the agreements has cut off relations with Israel. On our side we are going to do everything possible to achieve stability in the Middle East and I hope that many will be part of that circle of stability and peace. And we also have to talk about Iran.
That was going to be my next question.
On October 8th Hezbollah was already opening a front against Israel in the north without provocation. We are talking about a ring of fire that surrounded Israel led by Iran, including the Houthis in Yemen. And what dispute do we have with Yemen? Iran is behind all of this. Our goal is for Israel to be a country that helps bring stability to the Middle East.
Without talking to Iran?
It’s just that Iran is clearly calling for the destruction of Israel and we are surrounded by their ‘proxies’, who are continuously attacking us.
The Iranian ambassador, during the reception he hosted last week in Madrid, spoke of a solution negotiated by “everyone” for the Middle East. He did not mention Israel, but he did not exclude it either. Does that sound interesting to you?
Our objective is to guarantee the security of all our citizens and of the State of Israel. If that is achieved, that is what it is all about. But we are talking about a country that has clearly threatened Israel.
Is there a solution to the Middle East conflict without a dialogue that includes all the countries in the region?
The solution starts with keeping pressure on Hamas to release the hostages.
But that is a short-term possibility. Let’s look beyond that. Will a solution that is not accepted by all parties work?
We want to guarantee the security of our citizens. But without Hamas as part of the day after. There can be no agreement when they call for the destruction of the State of Israel or when their children’s textbooks educate them to hate Israel and do math exercises counting terrorists or dead Jews. The solution must also include the education of the youngest. Otherwise, there will be no lasting peace.
