Rebeca Grynspan
Secretary General of SEGIB
Javier Socastro
“I have been very happy in Madrid”, Rebeca Grynspan, Secretary General of Secretaría General Iberoamericana (SEGIB) declared during an interview for The Diplomat in Spain, on YouTube. “Indeed, that is one of the things we Ibero-Americans have in common. When we go to another Ibero-American country, we still feel like home”, she continued. “I define it like this: it is a city that has everything on a human scale”.
I would like to start with a topic that generally does not top the beginning of any interview, but it will be undoubtedly present over all questions that we have prepared for this session, which is gender equality. What objectives does SEGIB pursue in that field? And, what resources are you counting on?
It is, indeed, very important to start with this question. We are facing a great paradox, because on the one hand, I am convinced that the character of the 21st century will be defined by how much we advance towards gender equality.
In the 20th century, the most important thing, in my opinion, was the Declaration of Human Rights. In this century, there will be important advancement. For example, a lot of technology, digitization, and a lot of science… But the most important thing in terms of our daily lives will be gender equality.
And COVID-19 has come to demonstrate not only the gaps that we knew already, but also the fragility of our progress. There has been a great setback in the progress that we had made in terms of gender equality. In terms of economic empowerment, in terms of co-responsibility, in terms of the insertion of women in the labor market, even in terms of the political insertion of women.
So, it is paradoxical that on the one hand there is much more awareness, and at the same time, what we have seen in the pandemic were very important setbacks in our rights.
Does the SEGIB see itself as that agent capable of leading, or co-starring, in the recovery of gender equality from now to the future?
To be specific, we are working on 3 things on this field:
Firstly, in reality, there was nothing really about gender at SEGIB. Now, we have a gender unit, we have been working on this issue, we have been mainstreaming the gender issue in all Ibero-American programs and in all SEGIB strategies. Also, in all the ministerial declarations where we have been, we were very strong on the issue of gender, in each and every one of the sectors with which we work.
Secondly, since 2017, together with The UN Women section, we have been developing a very important project for the economic empowerment of women that has to do with that normative and legal framework that still persists and that hinders the economic empowerment of women. We have analysed the most laws in the region and for each country there is an agenda of the laws that must be eliminated, the laws that must be modified, and the laws that must be promoted in this field. And we have been very successful so far.
And thirdly, the project that we are working on and that we hope to approve at the next summit is the Ibero-American program against gender violence. This is essential and I believe that it can be a very important space for the exchange of experiences and mutual learning on this subject.
Lately, it seems that countries had to place the greatest number of barriers both physically, politically, and economically with everything that is external to them. How does SEGIB see these new political trends?
The question is very important because what we saw at the beginning of the pandemic was not national policies, but nationalists, which is different, right? And a lot of lack of cooperation and coordination at the international level.
I believe that Europe has set an example for us there. They started very badly but later managed to put in place a joint program to face the pandemic and vaccination. But it remains true that in a pandemic like this, what one would have expected is much stronger action and with many more instruments from the multilateral world.
And, specifically, how does SEGIB see these new “individualisms” on our way to the 2030 Agenda and the Sustainable Development Goals?
We have sincerely committed to re-embracing the Sustainable Development Goals agenda. It has been left behind by the problems that the world has been facing recently, but it is already 5 years since we approved the Agenda, and therefore, if we do not embrace it again, if we do not reinvigorate the Development Goals Sustainable, they will not be met.
What is certain is that the Ibero-American space is one of the important voices at the global level that advocates for strengthening multilateralism and for revitalizing the two most important agreements that the multilateral world has taken: the Sustainable Development Goals and the Climate Change Agreement.
Recently, we have seen how the Executive Power of many countries has been cutting certain freedoms to political and social agents, advocating for a better management of the health crisis. What margin of action has this left for an organization as international as the Ibero-American Secretary General?
I think that there is a very important thing to differentiate there. On the one hand, the measures that were necessary to control the pandemic, but that were taken within democratic states. And, on the other hand, the measures that have been abusive with the excuse of controlling the pandemic to go a little further, and perhaps cut freedoms.
And it seems to me that the discussion must happen. The question is valid, can we give the State, for example the power to limit our mobility in the context of a pandemic?
Rights must be accompanied by responsibilities. So, if any of us is infected and goes out onto the streets and infects others, I believe that in that case the State can establish norms that prevent that from happening because there is damage to a third party in the exercise of freedom without responsibility.
I do say that there must be democratic control over the powers of the State because that is what defines democratic control. Now, that does not mean that each individual can do what they want even during a pandemic when it can cause death to other individuals. I believe that is a different terrain.
In a couple of months, we will celebrate the 27th Ibero-American Summit that was scheduled for November 2020. Later, format changed to “presential” in April of this year, and some days ago SEGIB declared that it would have to be semi-presential in the end. A summit entitled “Innovation for sustainable development-2030 goal. Ibero-America facing the challenge of the coronavirus”. Very important summit at a global level. Therefore, what objectives do you pursue for April 2021?
Well, I think that what the title reflects is a maxim that we have in the Ibero-American space. That is that “the short and long term begin at the same point”. In other words, we have to face the pandemic, and that is why Latin America is facing COVID-19. But at the same time, we have to have a long-term vision in favour of the Sustainable Development Goals.
We hope that it will be a very strong statement in terms of the post-COVID-19 recovery, international financing, access to vaccines and the programs that must be implemented for a rapid, equitable and sustainable recovery by the Ibero-American countries. At the same time, we will have a document that will be a commitment to innovation and that comes out of the consultations and the meetings of the highest level and the ministerial meetings that we have had during these years with very important ideas.
And we will approve several Ibero-American programs of great importance. One of them, an Ibero-American program against gender violence, which I mentioned earlier, the Ibero-American program to prevent the transmission of chagas illness from mothers to children, which affects the poorest sectors of the region. And we will sign an agreement that we have been negotiating with many of the countries, which is the agreement for the circulation of talent and the control framework for improving the quality of education in the Ibero-American region.
Is there an economic project that SEGIB is looking forward to with special interest right now?
Actually, I believe that the Summit is going to be a great opportunity to have a very strong voice in a recovery for Latin America, in comparison to other crises we have seen in the past.
Needless to say, the issue of trade and the issue of Europe’s association agreement with Mercosur is on the table, as well as the renewal of the agreements with Mexico and Chile are a very important part of the agenda between Europe and Latin America.
The second most important thing is to put at the centre of the agenda the issue of economic recovery in these so-called “middle-income” countries, which we call countries in transition to development. Many of the programs that have been agreed in both the G7 and the G20 are not directed at these emerging countries. And I think, it will be an opportunity for Ibero-America to have a very strong voice at the global level in defence of the interests of emerging countries, and of a so-called solidarity financing of International financial institutions.
Moving on to geopolitics, what role does SEGIB have for China?
Well, it seems to me that there is no reason to demonise China in any way.
The reality is that China is an important commercial partner of Latin America and it is already the main commercial partner of 8 countries in the region. And, therefore, without a doubt it is a very important factor in the economic recovery as well. In what sense? China is the only country that is economically growing V-sahped, that is, rapidly. As a result of the pandemic, China is expected to double its GDP by 2028.
That basically means putting 15 trillion dollars into the world economy, which is the size of the Chinese economy. And we are seeing that the prices of raw materials and food are rising again, which benefits the countries of Latin America a lot.
On the other hand, it is also true that we need a different relationship with China. First, there has to be a lot of transparency in the agreements made with China. In this sense, I believe that it is very important that, also with China, the relationship is not only one of primary trade, but that it is a relationship that goes beyond that. In other words, we are hoping on relations that are more sophisticated, that have rules of the game, and that are much more transparent.
And the second thing which we cannot deny is that there will be a geopolitical tension in Latin America between China and the United States. Latin America will be a field of geopolitical attention between the United States and China. It will be because of lithium, it will be because of trade, it will be because of 5G… So, today more than ever, the presence of Europe becomes even more important for us because it is like an “escape pipe” to that geopolitical tension.
What it is a matter of fact is that we should not fall into false dichotomies and Cold War rules of the game. I think it would be a mistake for Latin America. We must have transparent relations with all our partners, and I believe that Europe must also be a fundamental partner for Latin America in that relationship.
Now let’s jump to the other side of the Pacific. Trump has ended his presidency. What perspectives does this generate to the SEGIB?
Well, it seems to me that there are several things that have happened since the new Administration. Mostly all are very positive news because Ibero-America is a voice in favour of multilateralism.
For our region, entering a world without rules, or a trade without rules, would be a tragedy. If it’s just about who has the most leverage, who has the most force, or “the law of the jungle,” many of our countries would totally fail. Therefore, the fact that Biden has already allowed the election of the new director of the World Trade Organization, that he has again committed to that multilateral scheme so that we have international rules in trade, that they have returned to the Paris Agreement, that it has made a commitment to the World Health Organization… All those are good news and go in the direction of what the Ibero-American space has defended and asked for during all this time.
To end this interview Rebeca, you have been General Secretary of SEGIB for almost two full terms now. I think it is an ideal time to ask you what last major projects you have in mind for the region.
Good question. Well, first of all, I believe that next year we will see the pro tempore presidency of the Dominican Republic, which will take charge of the next Summit. And we will dedicate most of our efforts to fulfilling the mandates that come out of this summit in terms recovery from COVID-19, always complying with this philosophy: let no one be left behind. Let me tell you something, the possibility of a recovery with more inequality is a potential scenario and we have to work hard to prevent it from being the case.
In addition, we are entering a “super electoral cycle” in Latin America this year, when we will have many elections in the next two years. I sincerely believe that it is very important to advocate for a new Social Contract, for a new social pact that manages to generate consensus minimums that allow a recovery, as I say, sustainable and inclusive. May Latin America not miss the opportunity to enter the New Economy, the new digital society, the new commitment to knowledge and the talent of the people. And this will require innovation, but it will also require agreements of great consensus.
I believe those will be our great tasks during this period.
